Episode 3 - Lamentis
Welcome back all you fellow myth nerds to another Loki episode breakdown! Lyra and I have dug deep into Episode 3: Lamentis. As with last week, this conversation will be divided into three parts: The Episode, Marvel Lore, and Mythology.
Obviously, this entire conversation contains ALL THE SPOILERS, so if you haven’t seen Episode 3 yet, maybe give that a watch first. Unless, you are chaotic like Loki and spoilers are your bread and butter.
Don’t hesitate to give us a holler on social media to tell us what you thought! We’d love to know your takes on Episode 3.
Cat: Let’s just get it out of the way immediately because it’s what we’ve all fucking been waiting for. LOKI IS CANNONICALLY BI/PAN AND NO ONE CAN EVER FUCKING QUESTION IT AGAIN. It’s important because the source material of Norse myth has always directed him as more than straight, the comics have been saying it for a while, and because for them to deny it once again would’ve been a fucking insult to queer fans across the globe. THIS IS A GOOD DAY. IT ONLY TOOK THEM 10 YEARS TO MUSTER UP THE COURAGE.
Lyra: I WAS SCREAMING SO LOUD! THANK YOU DISNEY! THANK YOU MARVEL! AHHH!! It feels AMAZING to finally have Loki’s bisexuality/pansexuality and genderfluidity made canon, and the fact it happened during pride month AND the use of the bisexual pride flag lighting throughout...it was perfect. Loki has been owed this for so long. We all have.
And it was just so beautifully and simply done. I loved that they took the time to give us this quiet scene that was filled with power and depth and said a great deal.
Cat: Canon sexuality aside, for me, there basically isn’t anything to this episode outside the scenes on the train. I’m serious. Action is cool, but there’s a reason why my own book hinges heavily on inner workings, conversation, and big feelings.
Lyra: This is why I don’t get people who find things that aren’t “action-packed” boring. HOW is exploring the complexities of the human (or god, haha) mind, heart, and soul seen as “dull” compared to flashy scenes with a lot of slice and dice? I mean, I love a good liver skewering, don’t get me wrong, but...MMM give me all that pain and angst that we bury deep within us. The train scenes delivered on this greedy need of mine for drama.
Cat: The conversation on the train showed us how entirely opposite they are. Their experiences have been entirely contradictory. Where Sylvie had the good fortune of being told she was adopted, Loki had the good fortune of knowing a loving mother. While Loki was royalty, Sylvie was not. Sylvie likely chooses to present as female while Loki chooses male. Everything about the scene, including Loki taking champagne while Sylvie will not and Loki choosing mirth over common sense and safety, is in direct opposition.
Lyra: The decision to show this contrast between them is GENIUS. I picked up on this as well, and it made me start thinking about the whole concept of nature vs nurture. Would our Loki have turned out differently if he hadn’t had an Odin? Would Sylvie be different had she had a Frigga? The one thing that does seem to bind them is a shared experience of going it alone, and the pain that has taken root in both of their hearts.
Cat: I think they show us a sneak peek of that, but not enough to satisfy my curiosity. Sylvie had to have faith in herself and because of this, strove until she could do a type of magic that Loki is clearly in genuine awe of. For some people, adversity is something to strive against, and that’s the feeling I get from Sylvie. That whatever she’s trying to accomplish with the TVA was born not just of the years of running, but of a long past that has created someone who thinks she can take on the universe. On the other hand, Sylvie has been spared the scars and abandonment that Loki was given when he discovered his life was a lie, the thing that propelled Loki down his path in the first place.
Lyra: Ok, this is incredibly perceptive and I’m EATING it up. I’m speechless right now.
Cat: What also sticks out to me here is how Loki responds to Sylvie’s pain. He knows how pivotal Frigga was to his life and his happiness, and he chooses to give Sylvie a memory of his, something to hold onto. Once again I find myself enamoured by Loki’s ability to strike a conversation, hit all the right notes, and be the perfect company.
Also, notice that neither of them has brought up Disappointment Dad—I mean Odin. It reeks of “why give space to people who have never give space to us?”
Lyra: I noticed the lack of mention of Odin as well...and I wonder if there’s a reason beside the obvious. (Also, you KNOW Odin would already be in the “Odin Sleep” if he was in this show. That’s how you solve a fascist lizard problem.)
Actually, you mentioned above how Loki and Sylvie are in contrast to each other….what if….where Loki had a strong mother figure, Sylvie instead had a great dad? If this is the case, you heard it here first, folks! I’m genuinely intrigued. As I’m also intrigued how love became a topic of their conversation so quickly...that seems like a rather deep and personal subject to discuss over some champagne and light refreshments. I wonder if it’s because both are curious if the other has finally found “love,” as that’s what they ultimately desire most and never seem to have?
The discussion of love is very interesting to me. The only thing they seem to match in is a lack of love. They’ve both dabbled in ladies and gents and presumably people who are neither and both, but neither of them have found something real. And I do have to wonder if that has something to do with all the pain they carry. People who are happy in love don’t typically have good reasons to conquer worlds or take down timeline dictators. Loki’s eventual description of love as a dagger felt very genuine to me, especially in the way that he’s experienced love. I wonder if he’ll eventually change his mind.
Lyria: This conversation gave me chills, especially Loki’s dagger metaphor. That is a brutal way to describe love, and definitely indicative of someone who has only ever felt the bite of love. I do wonder if there is a story connected to this metaphor that he had to be drunk to even share...Who does this dagger represent? WHO HURT MY BABY?
Or, is it that he doesn’t believe in love at all? I can’t decide which hurts me more.
Maybe Sylvie and Loki will help each other change their thoughts on love? The theme of the show seems to be questioning what you think you know. Your very beliefs. I feel like love is definitely on the table...They both seem to hold a different concept of what love is, however Loki’s is way more bleak. I mean, Sylvie admitted she needed her “postman” to keep her going, so she seems to recognize its importance? Love is something worth fighting for?
Cat: Honestly I just want these two to be best friends forever. They play off of each other so well, even all the snipes they made at each other on the train, before and during battle.
Lyra: Ok, I’m very disappointed in his lack of knife play in this episode. I mean, he tries...But, look. He finally got reunited with his daggers, my biggest wish (along with the turtleneck. YAY TURTLENECK!) from the last blog, and he ends up getting tossed out of a train! Where is my stabby guy? He never missed stabbing Thor, but these “red shirt” train guards? ARGH! *Sharply inhales* It’s alright. It’s cool. I will never stop believing in him and his daggers.
Cat: Loki also can’t sit backwards on a train which is maybe the most human thing he’s ever said.
Lyra: I cannot tell you how many times I’ve had this conversation with family members when we get on a train! I will never understand. I’m definitely Sylvie in this situation, LOL! BUT, I loved they called out the other’s irrational “quirks.”
Can I also point out the fucking HAND KNIT SWEATERS ON THESE GUARDS. Whose mother knit all these???
Lyra: I did not notice this! Are you serious? What kind of government was this that commissioned hand knit sweaters? Maybe that’s where their budget went instead of, you know, a feasible evacuation plan. LOL!
The Marvel Lore
Cat: I almost feel like the week between episode 2 and 3 leaves me barely needing to say this. But since we now know that Randy is Sylvie and that Sylvie is basically Enchantress, there’s a lot of potential for Marvel Lore to shine here. Enchantress has always been the off-again on-again best friend for Loki, which we get to see the potential for in this episode. The only things that’s a bit squicky is the fact that in several Marvel productions, including the Mackenzie Lee novel Loki, Enchantress and Loki end up sexually involved and while I’m SURE there’s fanfic out there about what an All-Loki Orgy looks like, it’s a bit too far for me. Then again, if there’s a Thorki fan, there’s a Loki² fan as well.
Lyra: Loki²...I’m in tears! Also, wouldn’t an All-Loki orgy be considered masturbation? See, these are the important questions.
Cat: VERY IMPORTANT QUESTIONS.
Lyra: Ok, but I’m still confused about Sylvie. Is Sylvie actually Loki? Is she Enchantress? Is she a Mélange of all three characters? Probably. The thing that stuck out to me was when Loki called her Loki again, and she said she didn’t go by that name “anymore,” inferring there was a time she did. I know things from the comics always get translated differently into film, and that might be what we are seeing happen here?
Cat: The moment where Sylvie admits to Loki that the TVA agents have muddled minds and a past before the TVA is critical to our riding theory that the TVA is oppressive and it’s gonna be these two that create the opening stages for The Multiverse of Madness.
Lyra: I LOST IT AT THIS REVEAL...is this why Mobius has such a passion for the 90’s and jet skis??? DID THIS MAN ACCIDENTALLY JET SKI OUT OF THE TIMELINE AND INTO BEING A VARIANT? This makes me so sad if that’s what happened.
The Norse Lore
Cat: The scene that finds Loki drunk and singing features a ditty called Jeg Saler Min Ganger, which is admittedly hard to find information on. However, according to this video and the comments below, the lyrics are:
Trees dancing and water stopping when she sings, she sings come home.
(The slow part)
In stormy black mountains
I wander alone
Over glaciers I make my way
In the apple orchard stands the beautiful maiden
And sings when are you coming home
But the trees dance and the waters stop when she sings, she sings come home!
BUCKLE THE FUCK UP
WHO HAS AN APPLE ORCHARD?
FUCKING IDUNN THAT’S WHO
SO WHO’S SINGING TO IDUNN WHILE WANDERING THROUGH THE WORLD ALONE?
FUCKING BRAGI THAT’S WHO
BRAGI EXISTS IN MARVEL CANON AND SINGS ABOUT HIS SWEET LOVE IDUNN.
ALSO the song reminds me of a wonderful set of tiktoks about musical memory and how some songs have “nonsense lyrics” that are actually remnants of dead languages. Check out part one here and part two here.
Lyra: O...M...G….HOW DID YOU CATCH THIS BEAUTIFUL, BEAUTIFUL EASTER EGG? This is amazing! This is totally Idunn and Bragi!! I AM DEAD! I LOVE this. What a fantastic nod to the original lore!
And another (sorta) nod I noticed in this sequence, is the fact Loki got drunk...at a party...and crashed it. HEAR ME OUT. Everyone was just having a quiet train ride, until he had one too many glasses of champagne and then he is singing about IDUNN, revealing painful “truths,” and causing a fight which ends up with him getting thrown out. Did we just see Marvel’s take on Lokasenna?
Cat: OH SNAP. OMG PLEASE YES.
Cat: Also I 100% couldn’t understand this part of the scene and bless this person for doing the legwork for me.
Overall Thoughts on Episode 3:
I think it’s obvious that I adored the conversational aspects of this episode. I may end up surprised next week, but I’m not sure you’ll find an episode better suited for me. The baring of the soul is my favourite thing and I feel like this was one of the most genuine presentations Loki has ever presented us.
Lyra: This episode hit it out of the park for me. Not only did we get CANON bi/pan and genderfluid Loki, but we also got real discussions about love and the pain it has caused both Loki and Sylvie. The risks this episode took with giving us time to do a deep dive into their psyches has me singing from the rooftops. It’s asking all the questions I want to ask, and giving genuine and real answers.
I know Tom Hiddleston said to “buckle-up” for next week’s episode, and I can’t even imagine what that will be after this one. WHY DO I HAVE TO WAIT AN ENTIRE WEEK?
Cat: Legit I do not fucking care about the whole rest of the episode. What happened? There was running I think. I dunno. No, wait, this shot is important cause look at that figure.
But the rest? WHO CARES, TRAIN.
Glorious Conclusion - What we want to see in Episode 4
Cat: I……..I feel like I’m getting everything on my wishlist. I really didn’t think they’d have the balls to canonically present Loki as genderfluid and bi/pan. WHAT THE FUCK DO I ASK FOR NOW??
A jumping-off point for these two to have their own movie, that’s what I want
I’d like to finally hear what happened to Sylvie that started this mission
A very smart remark from Mobius when he saves the day
Lyra: So far I’m also getting everything on my list...I’m VERY pleased by this. BUT IF I MUST DESIRE MORE...
Who hurt Loki to give him this dagger metaphor?
Did Mobius at one point own a jet ski?
Loki actually winning a fight. With daggers. I just want Loki and daggers thank you very much.
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